Room for moderate voices?

Replies to This Discussion

Permalink Reply by Sandy Cope on March 28, 2009 at 1:26pm

Nick- Moderates/Independents have no core values or principles as you have laid out about yourself above. They are untrustworthy and unreliable. You never know how they will vote on important or not so important issues, see Specter, Snowe and Collins for recent examples. They have no place in American political elected positions as today you may think this tax hike is OK, and tomorrow that tax hike isn't, today you may think this abortion is OK, and tomorrow that one isn't, and today you may think it's OK to own this list of guns, and tomorrow you will take more of them off the list. It's interesting that you bring up the 3 examples of Conservative Principles that are the most sacred to Conservatism and even Republicanism. There is a party that caters to your wishy washiness, their called Democrats. I guess you think McCain/Feingold was OK, also which was an assult on free speech.

Permalink Reply by Sandy Cope on March 28, 2009 at 1:59pm

Here you go Nick. This is the Virginia 2008 Republican Party Platform. While there are some items I don't agree with, I do agree with the majority of the Platform. I really wish that some would stop trying to change the party into what they would like it to be. If you agree with these words more so than the Democrats Platform, vote Republican, if not then vote for the Democrat, but, please stop trying to change the principles of the party. In other words, you're with the Republicans, or your not. Period.



2008 Platform

This platform was approved May 31, 2008 by the Virginia Republican Convention.


PREAMBLE

It's time to make Virginia great again.

As Republicans, we know Virginia deserves better. And we will strive to ensure that our elected officials and/or those who seek to become elected officials know that we believe Virginia deserves the best from its leadership. We strive to ensure that our party platform exemplifies certain principles and values that unite us as Americans.

We publicly support a healthy change to political dialogue beginning with the acknowledgement of the values and concerns of the vast majority of Americans and jointly agree to a core platform which could bring us together.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


We believe that keeping the reference to "One Nation Under God" in the Pledge of Allegiance is very important.

We will hold true to our values and traditions that strengthen families, builds moral character and protects the innocent.

We believe that English should be the official language of government.

We believe we have an obligation to be good stewards of God's creation for future generations, and we will do so while safeguarding our property rights.

We believe taxpayers should be given the option of a single rate system that will give them the convenience of filing their taxes with just a single sheet of paper.

We believe that the United States should only grant citizenship to those who want to embrace and defend American values and culture.

We believe that every worker should continue to have the right to a federally supervised secret ballot election when deciding whether to organize a union.

We will defend our right to protect family and home while defending America and her allies and defeating America's enemies.

We will demand transparency and accountability in all public institutions and at all levels of government.

We will lead our state into a new era of prosperity, innovation and opportunity for all.

The changes we propose in government have to occur in all 513,000 elected offices throughout the country and will start here in Virginia.

As Republicans, we can and will make Virginia and our country better for future generations.

American Values and American Solutions


We want to strengthen and revitalize America’s core values which unite a large majority of Americans.
Our goal should be to provide long-term solutions instead of short-term fixes.
Government clearly has to change the way it operates by bringing in ideas and systems currently employed in the private sector to increase productivity and effectiveness.
The changes we need in government have to occur in all elected offices throughout the country and cannot be achieved by focusing only on Washington.
American Civilization

AMERICAN CIVILIZATION


Individuals have basic Constitutional rights to defend themselves, their families and property.
We believe that the Right to Keep and Bear Arms is an individual right.
We believe that the ban on the Right to Keep and Bear Arms in National Parks should be repealed. We support the passage and signing into law the 2008 HR 5646 which will repeal this ban.
We believe that life and Constitutional rights begin at conception and continue until natural death.
We believe that the Congress should pass legislation which declares that life begins at conception.
We will advocate for a constructive national dialogue on the importance of protecting human life from conception until natural death.
It is important to have references to God in the Pledge of Allegiance. As it states in the Declaration of Independence, “we are endowed by our Creator with the right to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness” which makes clear that certain rights can’t be taken away by government.
Statements regarding religion and morality made by the Founding Fathers are just as important today as they were 200 years ago.
We believe that the Congress should pass a constitutional amendment defining marriage as between one man and one woman.
The language in the Pledge of Allegiance and the Declaration of Independence are very important and must be protected. We reject the idea that because the times change so must the meaning of the language in the Pledge and the Declaration.
Public schools should teach more American history and civics.
We believe that parents should be able to choose which schools their children attend and that governments should try to make all forms of education - public, private, home schooling and charter schools affordable and accessible.
ENGLISH


English should be the official language of government, and all election ballots and other government documents should be printed in English.
Immigrants should be required to learn English.
Government should make available English language instruction to all who need it.
Businesses should be able to require employees to speak the English language while on the job.
Immigration, The Border, and Assimilation


The United States should grant citizenship only to those who want to embrace and defend American values and culture.
The American people believe border control is a security issue and current laws must be vigorously enforced.
Illegal immigrants who commit felonies should be deported. Allowing illegal immigrants to remain in this country undermines respect for the law.
There should be a worker visa program making it easier for people to work legally in the United States.
When applying for a temporary worker visa each worker should take an oath to obey American law and be deported if he or she commits a felony while in the United States.
In a worker visa program each worker will receive a secure identification card that will allow the government to locate him or her.
Each worker must go to immigration centers in his or her home country that will help them find jobs in the United States so he or she applies for a visa with a job in hand.
There should be heavy monetary fines against employers and businesses who knowingly hire illegal immigrants.
The Internal Revenue Service should conduct audits of companies who knowingly hire illegal immigrants to determine if those companies have paid the taxes they owe.
Science and Technology


There will be incredible possibilities to meet our country’s challenges in a variety of fields because in the next 25 years there will be 4 to 7 times the amount of new science and technology in the world as in the last 25 years.
Therefore we should dramatically increase our investment in math and science education.
We must rely on innovation and new technology if we are going to compete globally.
Energy and the Environment


We have an obligation to be good stewards of God’s creation for future generations.
We can have a healthy economy and a healthy environment.
We can solve our environmental problems faster and cheaper with innovation and new technology than with more litigation and more government regulation.
Entrepreneurs are more likely to solve America’s energy and environmental problems than bureaucrats.
If we use technology and innovation we do not need to raise taxes to clean up our environment.
We want to, in addition to existing laws and regulations, encourage businesses to voluntarily cut pollution
We should give tax credits to homeowners and builders who incorporate alternative energy systems in their homes including solar, wind, and geothermal energy.
We believe that subsidies to ethanol and biofuels should end and the market should determine the price of these products.
We should hold city governments to the same standards for cleaning waste water as are applied to private industry.
We are prepared to develop public and private partnerships to preserve green space and parks and to protect natural areas from development.
OIL AND NATIONAL SECURITY


Our current dependence on foreign oil threatens our national security and economic prosperity by making us vulnerable.
We should encourage the building of more oil refineries in America to lower the cost of gas, diesel and other refined products.
With appropriate safeguards to protect the environment we should drill for oil off America’s coasts and within our physical boundaries, including the Artic National Wildlife Refuge, to reduce our dependence on foreign oil.
Taxes


The federal income tax system is unfair and obsolete the death tax should be abolished.
We believe the state and federal death taxes should be abolished.
The option of a single rate system should give taxpayers the convenience of filing their taxes with just a single sheet of paper.
The United States has one of the highest corporate tax rates in the industrialized world making it difficult for U.S. corporations to compete internationally which gives incentives for companies to move overseas. We favor the adoption of a single corporate tax rate that is significantly lower than today’s rates and is set at a level to make American companies globally competitive.
We believe that government at all levels should prioritize spending, cut waste and unnecessary programs in order to balance their budgets. We believe that growth in government spending should not outpace growth in the economy.
We believe that in order to invest in our infrastructure, government should work in partnership with the private sector to produce the best quality core services at the lowest cost to the taxpayer.
Personal and Family Financial Planning


The United States was founded by and continued to attract individuals with strong work ethics and high hopes and expectations to make a better life for themselves and their families. In America, just about everyone can both live a full, financially secure life and save enough for a comfortable retirement with no dependence of expectation of government assistance. Virginia Republicans believe that this approach to personal wealth and finances must be encouraged and perpetuated.
The principles and practice of economic self-sufficiency and individual financial planning should be incorporated in American school curricula beginning in elementary school.
Where helpful, school students should be required to train their parents in these principles.
A passing grade in personal financial responsibility and planning should be a requirement for graduation from high school.
Social Security was established and must remain only a supplementary source of income to supplement individual savings and retirement accounts.
It is important for the President and Congress to address the issue of Social Security in the next few years.
The current Social Security systems is broken and if it isn’t reformed future generations will no longer have it as a safety net for retirement.
We favor a Social Security proposal in which Personal Social Security Savings Accounts would be optional, with workers given the choice of continuing to depend on the current system with current benefits.
Freedom of Religion


Statements regarding religion and morality made by the Founding Fathers are just as important today as they were 200 years ago.
References to the Creator in the Declaration of Independence are very important.
We reject the Ninth Federal Circuit Court declaring the Pledge of Allegiance unconstitutional.
The phrase “Under God” in the Pledge of Allegiance is perfectly in line with the United States Constitution.
Separation between Church and State does not mean there can be no references to God in government sanctioned activities or public buildings.
The best way to ensure religious freedom is to protect ALL religious references and symbols; including those on public buildings, lands, or documents.
Children should be allowed a moment of silence to pray for themselves in public school if they desire.
We reject banning all prayer in public schools.
We support the right of high schools students to affirm their religious beliefs in graduation speeches.
We approve of nativity scenes, Menorahs or other religious symbols being placed on public property during their appropriate holiday season.
We favor a law to protect city, county, and state lands that have crosses or other religious symbols from being removed.
Many of the problems our country faces are because America is no longer as religious and moral as it once was. We recognize that religion plays an important and constructive role in the moral fabric of our nation.
The Founding Fathers understood that religion and morality were important to creating and building this country and talked about it regularly. This was understood throughout American history and is central to America’s success today. We reject that this violates the U.S. Constitution and discriminates against those who are of other faiths or are not religious.
America as the World’s Leader


Virginia Republicans are proud that America is the undisputed leader of the world.
Virginia Republicans believe that we are today the world’s only “super power” because of a sound and moral foreign policy which balances protection of American national interests, promotion of the principles of democracy, free-markets and a civil society globally and courage, vision and leadership on and in a host of international political, social, humanitarian and economic issues and organizations since World War II.
Many democracies in the world today trace at least a part of their political systems to the founding principles and documents of the American Revolution. Virginia Republicans are proud of the leadership of the Founding Fathers from the Old Dominion who are responsible for the drafting of these documents and the founding of so many of the most important American institutions.
Today, struggling persons the world over who are denied Western liberties and freedoms continue to look to America for leadership and welcome its support to end tyranny in their countries.
Virginia Republicans wholeheartedly support our brave troops in Iraq and Afghanistan, and the countless American and allied civilians working tirelessly to rebuild civil society in these countries.
Sadly, there remains a very long list of nations mired in oppression and gross violations of human and civil rights.
China: A totalitarian dictatorship which fosters widespread corruption which has lead to the exportation of millions of units of dangerous consumer products to the U.S. and world markets and the deaths of tens of thousands in the recent earthquake due to corrupt inspectors and bad building code enforcement; Communist China is a growing threat to Taiwan and other East Asian democracies; its defense and espionage programs are a direct threat to the U.S.
Iran and North Korea : Iran and North Korea today are the greatest immediate threat to all countries in the Middle East and East Asia (respectively), and their nuclear programs are a direct threat to the United States . These corrupt totalitarian regimes grossly violate the human and civil rights of their citizens.
Myanmar (Burma) : The corrupt military junta is responsible for massive deaths and widespread misery of the country’s citizenry.
Cuba : Even as Fidel Castro steps aside, the corrupt Cuban communist party denies all basic human and civil rights to the brave people of that country.
Russia : Russia has the second greatest nuclear arsenal in the world today; the Russian rulers have ended basic civil rights of their people; corrupt oligarchs undermine the economy and stifle free-market economic growth; Russian foreign policy in the region undermines stability in neighboring budding democracies and provides cover for the last Stalinist state in Europe, Belarus
Mexico : Continuing high-level corruption by government and business elites and growing threats to a free press subverts the rule of law, denies de facto basic rights, and undermines the ability of hard working Mexicans to create decent lives for themselves and their families in their own country, thus forcing them to flee to the U.S. for economic opportunities.
Defending America


Virginia Republicans are proud that the United States has the finest defense forces in the world.
U.S. Army, Navy, Marines, Air Force and other services are the greatest peacemaking force in the world today. Virginia Republicans honor all those who serve under the Stars and Stripes.
American leadership in the Cold War led to the substantial expansion of NATO, the greatest and most successful alliance of democratic countries in world history.
At the start of this century, it is vital that America’s defense remain second to none, and be prepared to continue global leadership in defense of democracy, human and civil rights, and worldwide prosperity. Virginia Republicans are proud that our Commonwealth is home to some of the finest military bases and installations, forming the backbone of America’s defenses, and that our civilian sector produces and provides many of the products and services which keep the us strong and safe.
While the Soviet/Russian strategic threat which was at the center of our defense posture for the past half-century is now substantially diminished, America today faces new threats to our security and that of our friends and allies.
We must help defend America and her allies and defeat our enemies.
America should take the threat of terror by fanatical religious groups seriously.
Terrorist organizations pose very serious threats for the United States and it will not be possible to negotiate with these groups.
Iran poses a serious threat to the United States.
There should be a death penalty for someone caught and convicted of carrying out a terrorist attack in the United States.
Congress should make it a crime to advocate acts of terrorism or violent conduct or the killing of innocent people in the United States.
The Department of Homeland Security and other government agencies should develop programs to teach Americans what they can do as individuals to help in the fight against terror.
Terrorist websites at home and abroad should be closed down using technology.
UNITED WE STAND

We believe that a united Republican Party is the best hope for the growth of freedom, liberty and democracy at home and abroad. We believe that all Republicans should strongly support Republican candidates. We believe that Republicans should work to promote the principles and ideals of the Republican Party in order to build our party and further develop freedom and liberty for all mankind.

We believe that the Republican Party is the beacon of human liberty and that we can build that “shining city on a hill.”

Permalink Reply by Donald Joy on March 29, 2009 at 12:26am

Go Sandy! Way to chastise a RINO!

Diversity-mongers like Nick like to insist that the GOP be "open to all." Hmmm, I rather insist that it absolutely NOT be open to Al Qeada members, nor to Hezbollah types, not to the New Black Panthers, not communists, not La Raza, closed off to the ranks of MS-13, AZTLAN, "Reconquista," and MEChA brown supremacists; we must not welcome Democrats into our party, obviously, and of course other undesirables include illegal aliens of all stripes, cannibals, serial rapists, child molesters, kleptomaniacs, axe murderers, Nazis, anyone from The Taliban, Nation of Islam denizens, and so on.

While we're at it, I propose that we exclude Code Pink activists and remnants of the Weather Underground.

Diversity is disunity, and is NOT our strength. Our strength is in our firmness of principles and unity of purpose.

Permalink Reply by Mark Collins on March 29, 2009 at 9:35am

I believe that gun ownership should be limited.....by your individual ability pay for and your preferences on what type of guns you want. It is funny to think that if liberals believed Gun Ownership was a right they would be urging the government to purchase guns for people who couldn't afford their own. Not just that they would use equal rights to suggest that all people should have the right to own the gun of their choice. I do honestly believe that Gun Ownership, like any right comes with great responsibility. I do not have a problem with taking that right away from criminals who prove to irresponsible to exorcise that right.

I believe that with modern technology we can see that life begins very early. What right does anyone have to take an innocent life and under what circumstances do you think that it is OK? Rape, Incest, and health of the mother are always thrown out there. Health of the mother is both very rare and an increasing nonfactor with todays technology. In the case of Rape and Incest, the baby is still the innocent party here. How does killing that child make everything else OK.

There are legitimate taxes and even republicans acknowledge that. This Government however vastly overreaches on spending and abuses far too much power to have any credibility in asking people for more money. People say that Bush Tax cuts let to a larger deficit. That is a lie. Bush tax cuts raised the level of revenue coming into the federal government to record heights. Bush and Congressional SPENDING let to record deficits IN SPITE of record reciepts. Republicans do believe that taxes are needed to pay for necessary Government (Military, Education at a local tax level, infrastructure etc.) but can you tell me where Democrats believe in cutting spending (military).

Nick,

Tell me where you disagree with these Republican principles.

Permalink Reply by Sandy Cope on March 29, 2009 at 9:53am

Here is what I think is a great article from American Thinker. The author nicely lays out the case where Republicans in the House and Senate who vote yes on the Liberals spending bills will face trying times when they come up for re-election.

http://www.americanthinker.com/2009/03/the_status_of_the_gops_midte...

The author points out Senator Kay Bailey Hutchison (or as I have heard her called "Kay Barely Republican") will have a steep climb to win over Governor Rick Perry in Texas, because of her "yes" votes for the bailouts. According to many Texans, Perry is looking more Conservative with her plans to enter the race against him. Senator Specter (PA) is thinking of changing parties (to which one I don't know) because his "yes" votes with the Liberals he has lost support of PA Republicans. Virginia's Cantor is quickly losing support not only because of his yes vote on the TARP Bailouts, but he also voted yes on Obamas Civilian (Socialist) Army, and to allow the Omnibus bill to move forward. I will love to see what the Republicans running for re-election use for their campaign promises, because some sure can't claim to be for lower taxes and less government, and they have the votes to prove it.

Everyone has had enough, and they are not going to take it anymore. It's pretty dang sad when a far left Liberal President and his Liberal majorities in the Congress have turned the entire country extremely left (in less than 60 days), and the pansy arsed Republican Leadership(?) still haven't found a way to get up off their knees, and learn that the word NO does exist.

Permalink Reply by Alan Moore on March 31, 2009 at 9:55am

Nick, so the party should move towards being Democrat-lite? Personally, I think you can have any view you want just as long as you keep pulling that lever for Republicans in every election...but don't ever run for office yourself, because I won't vote for you! Ha!

Permalink Reply by Mark Collins on March 31, 2009 at 10:38am

Nick,

Are you seriously "generally" against abortion. It is unequivicolly the murder of an innocent baby. Under what circumstances to you think that it it OK? Please respond and answer this question.

Remember that a large part of the Republican party platform is personal responsibility. If you have sex you could get pregnant and are then responsible for that baby.

Permalink Reply by Sandy Cope on April 7, 2009 at 7:17pm

Brian- First allow me to say that if Nick started this tread, he can certainly defend himself in it, he does nor need your chastisement to those that have posted against his ideas. You said below "The party changes and our principles change as the environment changes." What part of the word "principle" do you not understand? A Principle is a Principle because it has proven to work every time, when you are willing to "change" it, it is no longer a "PRINCIPLE." With every word you post Brian, you prove yourself to be an "UNPRINCIPLED" man. You more than prove that you are the downfall to the Conservative/Republican party. Because Hanna Montana, Fiety Cent, American Idol and the like are the "NEW ENVIRONMENT", does that move the country any closer to what our Founders believed to be the best moral/political compass for our country? You have posted that "you could care less" about things like "abortion, gay marriage and other social issues." Just what do you consider a "Principle" , because I can't find what you do believe in. Fiscal Conservatism? Defense Conservatism? Absolutely not Social Conservatism! The most basic "value" Republicans believe in is "Life." Beyond that Brian, no other value, principle or thought matters. "Life, Liberty, Property and the Pursuit of Happiness, is what I had the notion that Republicans stand for. Just how many parts of that equation do you disagree with? You know Brian, you are so far away from the Republican principles, I am actually wondering why you consider yourself a Republican? You give Cantor a pass because he voted correctcly a time or two lately. If I have ever encountered a dangerous moderate, it surely would be you. Please don't even consider running for office, you would be an embarrasement to the party.
Brian W. Schoeneman said:

Stop with the unnecessary personal attacks on Nick. He's entitled to his opinion, even if you happen to disagree with it. You don't know the man. Saying he has no core values, he's untrustworthy and unreliable because he doesn't agree with you is ridiculous. He's a Republican. He says he's a Republican and he votes that way.

Those are the kinds of attacks I'd expect from Democrats. Not from Republicans.

Nick, there is a place for everyone, so long as they accept the concepts the embody the creed. There is substantial room for debate within each of those points, but fundamentally they are something that all of us should be able to agree with.

Sandy, the Republican party platform that was adopted in Virginia in 2008 is one in a long line of Republican party platforms that have been adopted since the party was founded in 1854. The party changes and our principles change as the environment changes. We change the party platform all the time to emphasize or demphasize issues. The Creed, however, doesn't change. And as long as you can accept that, you're a Republican.

And for the record, Cantor voted against both the stimulus and the Obama budget.

Stop with the unnecessary personal attacks. If you disagree with Nick, explain why you do so, and do it without resorting to personal attacks. We're all on the same team here.

Permalink Reply by Mark Collins on April 8, 2009 at 12:24am

Brian,

While we all agree in smaller government, you sound far more libertarian than Republican. You say you defend life, liberty, and property yet you do not care for the issue of abortion. How is it that the most innocent life is not worth defending. With liberty comes responsibility. We as a society have a right to set certain rules. We have also learned from history that the decadent decay of a society socially will inevitably lead to its downfall. We are going down a road that I am willing to fight and die to stop. Gay marriage has been portrayed as being about equal rights. This is really simple. Everyone has the right to get married. Marriage is the union between a man and a woman. There is no acceptable reason to alter or bastardize this. I am not willing to accept any other answer be it civil unions or otherwise. I believe people should be allowed their own immoral behavior, but I am certain that government has no right to condone it by sanctioning it. Government can be granted only those rights granted to us by our creator. We were not granted the right to dictate right and wrong. Homosexuality is wrong. We have allowed ourselves to be brainwashed that we are somehow bigotted for speaking the truth on that. Should it be illegal? Between consenting adults I think not. You and your sins are between you and God presuming that you have injured no one. But to ask for the Government to essentially give immoral behavior the seal of approval is stepping over the line. We also know that it will not stop there. The Gay, Lesbian, Transgender crowd won't be happy until our children are indoctrinated into their lifestyle while still in grade school.

I'm sorry but theres no room in my party for social "moderates". Feel free to vote your own concience but if you feel you cannot be a Republican unless we embrace your ideas then you'll find no comfort with me.

Permalink Reply by Donald Joy on April 8, 2009 at 7:36am

People like Brian and Nick simply don't want to be bothered with the difficult philosophical questions and controversies involved in the GOP's social stands on such topics like abortion, gay marriage, and guns, because their intellect is either inadequate to making a principled stand on any of them, or because of laziness. They seek the easy and non-confrontational identification with the less contentious Republican planks such as free markets, low taxes, strong defense, etc., because such topics require less rigor and wrenching soul-searching, less chance of uneasiness and strife at dinner parties, less firmness.

Brian makes several statements about abortion and gay marriage that simply don't hold up to any kind of intellectual scrutiny or standard of integrity. He says he is pro-life, yet he deflects the very idea that an innocent life is being murdered by instead bemoaning the alleged lack of interest in the state of that life after it is born on the part of people like us! He says that our opposition to gay marriage is misplaced and dishonest, because of our alleged neglect of the degraded and endangered state of heterosexual marriage, and that we are somehow hypocrites for focusing on fudgepackers forcing us to accept their perverted version of marriage!

Brian's premises are flawed and sleazy--we conservative Republicans do NOT neglect the status of children nor that of heterosexual marriage; in fact, we more than any other political constituency have always been involved in fighting to preserve heterosexual marriage from the destructive influences in society today, and we have relentlessly sought to preserve the intact family structure that nurtures and protects children.

Brian just doesn't want to be bothered with the task of thinking about things, he'd rather just call himself a "moderate" while calling us hypocrites. He writes of not believing in "forcing his beliefs on people", and accuses us of doing that--yet the very issues we are discussing here--the ones which indeed used to be perhaps about conservatives trying to legislate morality or what have you--have today become issues about liberals trying to pass laws that force immorality on the rest of us!

Don't even try to tell me for a second that our children are not having perversion and utter degradation shoved down their throats in public school, or that our society as a whole is not under attack by a violent mob of hateful homosexuals and liberals who are trying--and sometimes succeeding through the courts--at forcing the rest of us to pretend that gay marriage is a right.

Brian fails to understand what rights actually are, because he won't defend an unborn infants right to live, and he acts as if state sanctioning of marriage itself is a right, which it is not.

Mark's point about objecting to the government sanctioning immorality is well taken, and it does not amount to "forcing our beliefs on" anyone. Quite to the contrary.

The only thing Brian said that is true is that the conservatives of today would have been considered liberals in the days of the Founders. And there's the rub: Social conservatives are vilified as some sort of repressive and rigid control freaks, yet by all standards of global culture and history, we are merely the only ones with our thumbs in the dike of America, attempting to hold back the tsunami of abject disintegration and collapse, while people like Brian sit there and throw stones at us.

Permalink Reply by Mark Collins on April 8, 2009 at 8:58am

I agree with you about legislating morality Brian. I just believe that you cannot legislate immorality either. Government of the people by the people should reflect the moral attitude of the people. I agree that the divorce rate is a serious problem. That started when states started allowing no fault divorces. I'm sorry but if no one is at fault than you should not be allowed to break the contract. The fact that the divorce rate is high is no excuse for destroying the family unit. Once the government redefines the "Family" it can become whatever the government wants. That could include deciding that children shoould be raised by the government alone as it only knows whats best. I feel that fighting to hold the line on issues such as this and legalization of drugs is essential to maintaining this country as a place where I would even want to live and raise a family.

Unfortunately a political party doesn't really have the luxury of "not taking sides" on issues like this or abortion. Bottom line is what the supreme court did was wrong. We can sit back and say "well the supreme court said this so we have to agree" or we can take a prinicpled stand. This is one case where the courts should be acting on behalf of the innocent. Yes there was a time not so long ago when you could argue when an unborn became life but modern science has long since dismissed that. Now we can argue viability in which case you have the social darwinists who believe that a baby is not "viable" until it could survive on it's own. So you could kill your child well after natural birth. We believe in protecting the rights of those who cannot fight for their own (unborn, highly disabled, elderly, infirm). So fighting against abortion is part of the party stance of the sanctity of human life. Again from our founders that we cannot give rights to our government that God has not given to us.

I am sure that you are a good person and living a good life. And it is very noble to live your life and set a good example. I do not believe that in politics that is enough.

Permalink Reply by Donald Joy on April 8, 2009 at 9:14am

Bingo, Mark.

Many people have no clue that in the Communist Manifesto, Marx and Engels specifically laid out the idea that the family is to be destroyed/dismantled and replaced by the state.

It's simply not a politically viable nor respectable position for anyone claiming to be a Republican to insist that these issues are best left to their private prerogatives. Clearly, they are to be fought out and decided in the public sphere and should remain in the forefront of our party.

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